Currency vs Brexit: GBP Losses

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kuuderes_shadow

Thousand Master
I think the mindset people around here had, especially since the steelworks closure, is that it couldn't really make things any worse.
If that's the mindset then they could hardly be more mistaken. Such industries and the people who work in them depend on trade more than any others. A lot of Britain's factories are owned by firms from Japan or India who set up in the UK specifically because it was a good place within the EU to do business. In fact of the socio-economic groups I think it's the C2s (skilled manual workers) who gained the most out of EU membership.
That said, I think the DE group (unskilled manual labour and long-term unemployed) gained the least from it. According to a poll by Lord Ashcroft, though, the C2s were just as pro-Brexit as the DEs were.

Chuka won't stand for Labour leader. The reasons he pulled out last time will apply to any and every leadership contest in the future as well. If he did I do think he would do considerably better than Kendall did, but I don't believe that it would be enough to beat a candidate from the left of the party.

Personally I'm torn on Tim Farron's position. It's certainly true that there are those who would wish for the UK to be part of the EU (and I would count myself among this group), and it's certainly true that there are no other parties in England and Wales that can represent this view. Claims that such a viewpoint is undemocratic and untenable are about as reasonable as claims that UKIP should stop saying they want the UK to leave the EU if the vote had been a tad under 52% to remain. In other words, not. That said, I don't see that approach paying off as it's just not going to happen, and as such would much prefer the party to be pushing for the "in the EU in all but name" position (free movement of labour, in the free market, be a member of all the other related European institutions, sign international deals alongside the EU and so forth), which is a much more likely outcome and probably more productive in ensuring the UK gets a relatively neutral result from all this and preventing a terrible one. It might win less votes, though.
 

HellCat

Stand User
I'm pretty terrified and keep feeling like I'm going to be sick. I voted to Remain and everything that has spiraled out of this has been infuriating and terrifying. Not least how the EU is declaring this done and dusted and tarring all of us with the same brush.

On the superficial side of being an Anime fan- had some CD Japan points I was gonna use on a monthly magazine order. With the points it came to far less than normal but cost close to a fiver more after exchange :(

I just can't believe it. Feels like thanks to racism, rose tinted nostalgia and plain not understanding the vote the UK has commited suicide.
 

Rosencrantz

Dragon Knight
The thing that really bugs me is that both campaigns did quite a poor job providing solid information.

One side saying there were benefits to being in the EU, the other saying we can make our own fairer better laws.

But what exactly, specifically were the benefits? What protection will we lose when we leave the EU? And what EU laws specifically hold us back that we'd be better off losing? It all felt very hand wavy broad strokes with a total lack of specifics. Now granted no one knows what will happen when an EU country leaves, but Remain sure as hell could of set out what the perks are right now and what we are likely to lose.
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
Rosencrantz said:
But what exactly, specifically were the benefits? What protection will we lose when we leave the EU? And what EU laws specifically hold us back that we'd be better off losing? It all felt very hand wavy broad strokes with a total lack of specifics. Now granted no one knows what will happen when an EU country leaves, but Remain sure as hell could of set out what the perks are right now and what we are likely to lose.

The trouble is, I think, that remain campaigners were having to deal with educated guesses as opposed to actual facts (which would have been tough, considering that a member state leaving the EU is an unprecedented act.) Mind you, it didn't stop lying bastard whoreson proto-Tory pieces of **** like Farage from spinning utter fabrications about what we could do with huge sums of money we supposedly (but never actually) paid to the EU.

I wwould advice everyone who's concerned about the current position of the UK that there's an online petition calling for a second referendum. And it's not a hopeless cause, however much the EU and our politicians might be talking and acting as if we're definitevely out. It's already gained enough signatories that it has to be considered by parliament, and let's not forget, Parliament have the right of veto. There's everything to play for yyet, it seems, as polling indicates a significant number of 'leave' voters would happily change their vote to 'remain' in light of the chaos of the last few days.

If you're a UK citizen (and ONLY if you're a UK citizen) and you feel leaving the EU is a mistake, go sign it. I have. It's very easy to do.

Here's the link:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
 

kuuderes_shadow

Thousand Master
Rosencrantz said:
But what exactly, specifically were the benefits? What protection will we lose when we leave the EU? And what EU laws specifically hold us back that we'd be better off losing? It all felt very hand wavy broad strokes with a total lack of specifics. Now granted no one knows what will happen when an EU country leaves, but Remain sure as hell could of set out what the perks are right now and what we are likely to lose.
I think this depends on what you use as your news source. I know The Economist did a very good job of setting out the remain case.

The problem is, the leave campaign somehow managed to succeed in playing the absolutely absurd "if they know what they're talking about that means you shouldn't listen to them" card. Which organisations like the BBC, bound by its equal coverage rules, then had to treat as though it had equal validity to the arguments that it was up against. And also meant that when the remain side pointed out that claims from the leave side were impossible, impractical or just plain false, that these could be dismissed in much the same way.

And now, with things going as predicted by said people, some leave campaigners are blaming the experts who made the accurate predictions because they think it's the predictions that are making things go pear shaped and not their vote. LOL.

With regards that petition, as I said elsewhere I'm not going to sign it.
I said:
I have not signed the petition and will not sign the petition. I think it's silly, and the only reason I would touch it is to snipe at Farage's previous claim that if a victory for remain was anything other than huge then he would push for another referendum...
... in which case where's the harm in people pushing for another referendum if there is a relatively small victory for leave?

Whether people sign it or not, though, it's not going to change a thing. There's no doubt that the result was legitimate, even if it was entirely misguided. It was made perfectly clear in advance that there would only be one vote, whatever the outcome, and that the result would be enacted. The vote was close but not so close that the overall result is in doubt.
 

NormanicGrav

(゜ロ゜)
AUKN Staff
The pound is just getting worse... and worse... and worse.



Heck today has hit an all new low of $1.3192 against the pound (that's around $1 to 76p). Well done Brexit.
 

HellCat

Stand User
Wish I had something useful to say but...just plain terrified. Can't get over not only the stupidity but that the EU is taking the Darth Vader response to a non binding example of insurrection.
 

ayase

State Alchemist
HdE said:
Nope. While I voted remain I'm not signing. Part of what people hated about the EU was its sham democracy, the way they ignored votes and their reaction to a vote not going their way (see: Lisbon Treaty) was to either ignore it or just keep voting until they got their way. It will do nothing for people's trust in politics or in the EU that the losing side's reaction is to ask for a do over. We had our chance, not enough people voted or not enough good enough arguments were put forward. It just appears like total sore losing and arrogance to ask for another vote because we didn't get our way. Would you do the same thing at a general election?

The result was what it was, and we have to accept and deal with it. Perhaps from the ashes will arise a better, more democratically accountable Europe whether the UK is part of it or not. It has been a wake up call to politicians who have taken their people for granted, and they had better wake up before it's too late and their people turn to extremists to get their point across.
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
NormanicGrav said:
The pound is just getting worse... and worse... and worse.



Heck today has hit an all new low of $1.3192 against the pound (that's around $1 to 76p). Well done Brexit.
I hope it gets better soon. I have a couple of US preorders in...
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
ayase said:
HdE said:
The result was what it was, and we have to accept and deal with it. Perhaps from the ashes will arise a better, more democratically accountable Europe whether the UK is part of it or not. It has been a wake up call to politicians who have taken their people for granted, and they had better wake up before it's too late and their people turn to extremists to get their point across.
There's also the question of where it would end. Would we take a second poll as the truth or would it only be fairer to have the best of three? I'm staunchly anti-leave but this doesn't seem like a practical solution unless we want to cement our position as the laughing stock of the world further.

Our postman burst into tears delivering the mail as he was so upset at the anti-immigrant narrative he's been hearing (he's not even from the EU, he's from Ghana). I wish the politicians would stop chasing their own tails and give the people some strong direction because that's what we really need right now, not distractions while the more hostile parties bask in the fury. Everyone is so confused and it's not helping at all.

R
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
With regard to whether signing that petition or participating in a second vote constitutes sham democracy / sore losing / whatever:

I've seen loads of comments along these lines elsewhere online. It's not an argument I'm really interested in getting into, but the way I see it, that petition, and a second referendum (if it lead to that) would still ultimately be instances of the people speaking up and asking for change. Which is, to my mind (even speaking as somebody who usually has next to no interest in politics) how democracy works.

But, everyone has to do as their own conscience and values impel them, I guess. I can tell you I signed the petition simply because, as little faith I have in the political system, I firmly believe that leaving the EU is THE WRONG DECISION and we're all going to be up **** creek for following through on it. It's a simple issue for me. And if anyone wants to call me a sore loser or whatever for doing so... well, that's too bad.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
The problem is that unless the number of verified signatures is greater than the number of people who voted Remain, it's likely that the people requesting the change are the exact same people who voted for Remain in the first place so nothing is being communicated other than the fact that Remainers are unhappy (which is self-evident).

I think it's a good idea to do anything we can to steer the situation somewhere less disastrous but I don't see the petition as something that will help us now. Even if it was granted and the referendum was voided, it would lead to riots in the street from those who got up, voted for what they believed in (however poor I personally think their judgement was) and were happy to see the Leave result. And while I disagree with them, they'd be morally justified in rioting if they were asked for their opinions and then completely ignored anyway.

R
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Stiibun said:
And how do they check if you're a UK citizen ? Even i as a Belgian can sign this petition without a problem ... i think.
It looks like there's some IP checking going on. But that's not the point, you shouldn't be trying to corrupt another country's democracy....
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
Rui said:
I think it's a good idea to do anything we can to steer the situation somewhere less disastrous but I don't see the petition as something that will help us now. Even if it was granted and the referendum was voided, it would lead to riots in the street from those who got up, voted for what they believed in (however poor I personally think their judgement was) and were happy to see the Leave result. And while I disagree with them, they'd be morally justified in rioting if they were asked for their opinions and then completely ignored anyway.
And yet, ironically, that petition was set up by a leave voter to pre-empt a win for the remain camp. That kind of throws a spanner in the whole 'should we ignore the opinions of others' discussion.

It just seems to me that the consequences already have proven that the issue of EU membership required much better consideration, and more honest campaigning (yeah, right - I know.) I've even seen the suggestion from both camps that it should never have been an issue that was turned over to the public to comment on.

I should maybe refrain from commenting any further than I have on this, though. Right now, I've just seen so much stuff on social media concerning this issue that it makes me angry and sad in equal parts.
 

Jatz

Hunter
Buzz201 said:
Stiibun said:
And how do they check if you're a UK citizen ? Even i as a Belgian can sign this petition without a problem ... i think.
It looks like there's some IP checking going on. But that's not the point, you shouldn't be trying to corrupt another country's democracy....

You can actually check the log for the petition. Seen a few images for it and it makes for interesting viewing. The petition is basically void and has zero chance of being taken seriously. There are people who have posted their address on Twitter for the purpose of getting people (from any country) to sign it. Supposedly, around the 2m signature mark only 300,000 signatures were from the UK.



Regardless, there's only one petition that matters...

 

kuuderes_shadow

Thousand Master
Jatz said:
Supposedly, around the 2m signature mark only 300,000 signatures were from the UK.
I can personally confirm that this is total nonsense as I looked at the constituency map at the exact point that it hit 2 million and non-UK signatories are not included in the constituency map.
Currently 3,655,362 out of 3,809,920 are from the UK. (edit: sorry, this figure also excludes Gibraltar - now 3669101 out of 3818074 from the UK/Gibraltar)

Also worth mentioning that outside the UK does not mean an invalid signature. British citizens resident outside the UK are also allowed to sign petitions and, indeed, to vote in the referendum (so long as they have been resident of the UK recently).
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Jatz said:
You can actually check the log for the petition. Seen a few images for it and it makes for interesting viewing. The petition is basically void and has zero chance of being taken seriously. There are people who have posted their address on Twitter for the purpose of getting people (from any country) to sign it. Supposedly, around the 2m signature mark only 300,000 signatures were from the UK.

Regardless, there's only one petition that matters...
I think this petition is complete *********, and I don't like the implications it has for democratic process, so I haven't signed. I was just objecting to the moral implications of a Belgian citizen deliberately screwing with it.

But I am fed up of smug leave woters. Leave won by a tiny margin. That means, a little under half the voters didn't agree with it. Do not expect them to be at all happy with this, especially given what has happened.

I'm sorry, but people have a right to be upset about the vote. Maybe they aren't expressing this in productive or helpful ways, but that doesn't take away from the fact 48% of voters got lumped with a result they didn't agree with. Why should they shut up and take it when the pound has been significantly devalued, when there have been a number of racist disagreements, and when people are likely to lose their security and their jobs, all for the sake of 3%. The Leave campaign retracted two of it's core promises the morning the result was confirmed, so I'm sorry, but I think myself and others who voted for Remain would like to question what the hell we are actually gaining from this, given they've admitted they can't reduce migration and they've retracted their NHS suggestion and some of them expected David Cameron (who was on the opposing side) to come up with a plan for them? We've basically handed the country to a bunch of lying muppets who need their arses wiped for them...
 

HellCat

Stand User
I want to hope the petition will work but I think it's been hirt by the same stupidity that got us the vote we currently have. Seems people thought they could bump up the numbers with fraud, like no one would look this over and just go "Golly, that's a huge number!"

For me right now, just wondering why parliament doesn't just ignore the result and go with the fact this is killing the country. I appreciate the EU is making that next to impossible. I appreciate people would riot. I appreciate we're seeing political power games. I appreciate I'm asking for something very dangerous to the future of future votes.

But there's a common sense solution that no one is entertaining.
 

Stiibun

Completely Average High School Student
Buzz201 said:
Stiibun said:
And how do they check if you're a UK citizen ? Even i as a Belgian can sign this petition without a problem ... i think.
It looks like there's some IP checking going on. But that's not the point, you shouldn't be trying to corrupt another country's democracy....
Come again :shock: Had no intention of doing this, none at all. Case was, that there's a discussion going on about UK leaving the EU in a Dutch forum i frequent a lot, and i posted the link to the petition for the sake of argument, but then someone said, hey actually everybody can sign this, not just UK citizens.

Hence my question here.
 
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