Ghost In The Shell 2.0 and GITS Blu-rays

ayase said:
If this has already been reported here then my apologies, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the news forum.

I've just noticed Amazon are taking orders for Blu-rays of Ghost In The Shell 2.0 and Innocence to be released by Manga on the 3rd of August along with the DVD edition of 2.0. Sadly no news on the original, or if 2.0 will contain it.
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What do you mean by the original? 2.0 is essentially a "director's cut" of the original with spruced up animation/graphics using modern techniques by all accounts so there will probably not be an original version, which this is designed to replace. Certainly there would be no advantage to releasing the original cut on Blu-ray since it would almost certainly be no better than upscaling the original footage, which most players Blu-ray players are perfectly capable of with the already released DVD.
 
Gawyn said:
ayase said:
If this has already been reported here then my apologies, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the news forum.

I've just noticed Amazon are taking orders for Blu-rays of Ghost In The Shell 2.0 and Innocence to be released by Manga on the 3rd of August along with the DVD edition of 2.0. Sadly no news on the original, or if 2.0 will contain it.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by the original? 2.0 is essentially a "director's cut" of the original with spruced up animation/graphics using modern techniques by all accounts so there will probably not be an original version, which this is designed to replace. Certainly there would be no advantage to releasing the original cut on Blu-ray since it would almost certainly be no better than upscaling the original footage, which most players Blu-ray players are perfectly capable of with the already released DVD.
Click to expand...

im thinking of getting the first film, so is 2.0 the same?
 
SundayMorningCall said:
Gawyn said:
ayase said:
If this has already been reported here then my apologies, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the news forum.

I've just noticed Amazon are taking orders for Blu-rays of Ghost In The Shell 2.0 and Innocence to be released by Manga on the 3rd of August along with the DVD edition of 2.0. Sadly no news on the original, or if 2.0 will contain it.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by the original? 2.0 is essentially a "director's cut" of the original with spruced up animation/graphics using modern techniques by all accounts so there will probably not be an original version, which this is designed to replace. Certainly there would be no advantage to releasing the original cut on Blu-ray since it would almost certainly be no better than upscaling the original footage, which most players Blu-ray players are perfectly capable of with the already released DVD.
Click to expand...

im thinking of getting the first film, so is 2.0 the same?
Click to expand...
My understanding is it is the first film but with remastered and additional footage much like happened with the original Star Wars films. I am sure plenty of people will hate the idea whilst others will be interested or not either way. Innocence will be practically a straight transfer since the original was shot in HD to begin with.
 
Yes, 2.0 is the done up version of the original Ghost in the Shell movie - the same film with new CGI spliced in along with a general remastering.

I'm not too crazy about the changes they've made: some of it looks great, other bits just seem out of place alongside the old animation. I'll get it either way for the sake of comparison and my collection.
 
Gawyn said:
What do you mean by the original? 2.0 is essentially a "director's cut" of the original with spruced up animation/graphics using modern techniques by all accounts so there will probably not be an original version, which this is designed to replace. Certainly there would be no advantage to releasing the original cut on Blu-ray since it would almost certainly be no better than upscaling the original footage, which most players Blu-ray players are perfectly capable of with the already released DVD.
Click to expand...
Well, I'd still rather they didn't do a Lucas on us and gave us the choice. I have the same criticisms of 2.0 as I do of the "Special Edition" Star Wars films - the inclusion of new CGI is just jarring.

The original has been released on Blu in Japan, the part in bold is just inaccurate. Take a look a little way down this page and pay particular attention to the two caps where the guy is running between all the signs and the last one of the canal in the rain. The original is sharper and cleaner than 2.0 (which has had some kind of soft focus filter applied to it) so it has obviously been re-mastered on it's own as well.
 
I wouldn't expect Manga to release "1.0" if they are doing 2.0, for fear of slicing their potential market up more and generally confusing people - though people who follow the GITS films are probably quite used to that ;)

It would be nice if they just stuck it in with 2.0 as a bonus if the materials already exist, or even in a premium special edition double disc set (maybe down the line, like the Ninja Scroll special anniversary edition?). It's not as though they have to do that much extra to it and it is a pretty popular title even amongst non-fans.

I'll personally skip these as my DVDs are enough GITS for me for one lifetime already, though I'll be interested to see how Manga do with them.

R
 
ayase said:
Gawyn said:
What do you mean by the original? 2.0 is essentially a "director's cut" of the original with spruced up animation/graphics using modern techniques by all accounts so there will probably not be an original version, which this is designed to replace. Certainly there would be no advantage to releasing the original cut on Blu-ray since it would almost certainly be no better than upscaling the original footage, which most players Blu-ray players are perfectly capable of with the already released DVD.
Click to expand...
Well, I'd still rather they didn't do a Lucas on us and gave us the choice. I have the same criticisms of 2.0 as I do of the "Special Edition" Star Wars films - the inclusion of new CGI is just jarring.

The original has been released on Blu in Japan, the part in bold is just inaccurate. Take a look a little way down this page and pay particular attention to the two caps where the guy is running between all the signs and the last one of the canal in the rain. The original is sharper and cleaner than 2.0 (which has had some kind of soft focus filter applied to it) so it has obviously been re-mastered on it's own as well.
Click to expand...
As I said the "remastered" original is the equivalent of upscaling, hence no real advantage to getting a Blu-ray version or getting the DVD and running it through a Blu-ray/standard DVD player with upscaling. You will get approximately the same effect as the DVD version there. The only possible reason to get it, in my own opinion, is if you have a Blu-ray player incapable of upscaling an SD-DVD.
 
There's a massive difference between an upscaled DVD and a Bluray! Especially with something like Ghost In The Shell where you're working from original film elements rather than a television anime designed for a specific resolution.

Film's ultimate resolution is something like 10 times higher than even Bluray can support. When a film is scanned for digital storage, it's scanned at between 2000 and 8000 lines of information, at least four times as much information than Bluray, so a native Bluray of GITS will look better than the DVD.

To follow your argument, Bandai oughtn't not to have bothered with the Akira Bluray, as the DVDs would have been good enough
 
Gawyn said:
As I said the "remastered" original is the equivalent of upscaling
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No. No it isn't. I don't mean to dwell on this but the masters of Ghost In The Shell will not be in 576i. You cannot upscale detail which isn't there. Look, I just made an actual size screencap from my DVD.

screen-684582-1.png


There is no amount of upscaling you could do to that shot which could bring out the level of detail in the blu-ray screencap I linked to above.

Edit: JPT got there before me. Ah well. I'll still leave this screencap here as proof :p
 
Actually, I've been reading up a little more about this, and as so happens with new technology, initial results are rarely promising.

The Ghost In The Shell Bluray was released by Bandai Visual in Japan, and it wasn't all that gratifying to this reviewer...

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1368/ghostintheshell_jp.html

He said that it looked like an upscale from the DVD...

There are a few Blurays like that out there, which just aren't as good as they should be. Avoid Escape From New York, which really is just the DVD ported over to a Bluray disc.

There are some comparison shots here

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/ghost_in_the_shell_blu-ray.htm

Although ignore the gushing of the reviewer, who doesn't see the difference between a brighter image and a more detailed image.

Ghost In The Shell on bluray taken from the film source will look better than that.

A better example of anime on Bluray is the Akira disc

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews44/akira_blu-ray.htm

Note that the screenshots are thumbnails of images at their native resolution. Click on them to see them at their intended size and detail.
 
If you compare this screencap to mine though... well I'm pretty damn impressed anyway. That same reviewer also goes on to say he thought it looked like an upscale until he realised how bad the DVD looked in comparison. I didn't link to DVDbeaver as you can't view the screens full size on that particular review, and at less than a quarter size they're pretty meaningless.
 
I think a lot of it is more indicative of just how bad some DVD transfers have been in the past. Take a look at Manga's Wings of Honneamise disc back in the day compared to the recent Bandai remastered version, struck from the HD transfer.

EDIT: Looking at your screencap, I'm seeing interlacing indicative of an NTSC-PAL transfer, rather than a progressive PAL transfer taken from a film source. Just checked my Special Edition disc and it does the same thing. It's a DVD issue, nothing to do with HD
 
Just Passing Through said:
Looking at your screencap, I'm seeing interlacing indicative of an NTSC-PAL transfer, rather than a progressive PAL transfer taken from a film source. Just checked my Special Edition disc and it does the same thing. It's a DVD issue, nothing to do with HD
Click to expand...
Even if we ignore the interlacing problem with the animation there's still masses more detail in the painted background on the Blu-ray. Besides, if there's never been a proper PAL transfer (mine is a UK copy) then what else do we have to compare it to? As I say, I think the screens for the original version look better than 2.0 edition, so that's gotta be as good as it can get on Blu-ray. We'll have to wait 'til 4k home media rolls around for anything better ;)
 
Innocence should be good on BD, fingers crossed. Some of the GITS 2.0 BD screen caps look shocking...

The gunbuster DB transfer was also shocking, really bad gate jitter for the first half. If your master is poor then nothing can help it.

HD really only lends itself to recent fully CG works or films carefully remastered from the original 35/70mm prints.
 
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