New article: The UK DVD Market - Sorry, how much?!

[Arbalest]

That was a good read, and being honest it does seem that the main problem is with the BBFC. The prices that jerome said just for looking at the content and the DVD just seems a bit over the top to me. Their paying more just to get it out than their really taking in. Mind you i do have to say with the likes of gunbuster 2, i'd probably prefer to get it here considering its price difference. Saying that, i do pick up some DVD's here still, i'm still picking up Berserk, and slowly but surely FMA.

The third method mentioned by andrew does seem to point to haruhi, it was a pretty good release over in the US, and if they do release it the same way here, i can see it going down well.

 

[Martin]

Just reading away and saw the comparison between Anime and big titles like 300, though thing with 300, the public actually got told about it being released. Having an full page(or small section) advertisement in Neo about a Naruto release(for example) is all and good to those of us who read that magazine, but the most of the general public do not. I hardly ever see any Anime being advertised anywhere else other than Anime orientated magazines and nothing on TV(and the only times I ever saw one was that old Manga Entertainment advert which was only ever shown around 1 or 2 am, so that was quite useless), so Anime is bound to have less of a good sale if no-one really ever knows about it(other than us Anime fans of course).

To be fair Tales of the Earthsea got a run by Tescos recently. But as said in the article you have to weigh up the costs of advertising to the benifits. Advertising outside of this niche market is a really, really big gamble.

Not to mention the fact that Ghibli titles are surefire sellers in relation to other anime titles. I'd say Crest of the Stars is more enjoyable but "From the creators of Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle" is bound to generate more interest.

For the record, the Gunbuster 2 and Fantastic Children box sets are very tempting indeed!

 

[kurosaki86]

^^ Indeed; for £25, I will find it hard pressed to say no to Gunbuster.

I am still weighing up the possibility of buying SEED. My only concern with the £50+ boxsets are that for regular John or Jane anime fan, a £50 single outlay is pretty hefty in all honesty. Most people who are willing to spend that cash on anime will probably already be importing it

 

[Gawyn]

The problem with that is the massive cost in getting an advert into a primetime slot.

Doesn't have to be prime-time, at least a decent time, say 10 or 11pm, y'know, when people are actually awake. And anyway, an advertisement in some popular magazine would be a good thing too!

Even that costs a lot of money and the returns would still not cover it, I am sure. To the majority of people it would just not make any sense and would be fairly unintelligible. You may try and drum up sales of the odd series but most people would not even consider it beyond the cartoonish look. They would immediately kiddify and disregard it without taking a second look. The best advertisement is to get it on primetime network TV but that is an extremely difficult proposition. Anime Central and the like are great for those who enjoy or have a passing interest in anime but the majority of people would never even notice, never mind consider watching it.

On the flipside anime has returns of at most 10s of thousands of pounds and that is for a popular release.

Of course it will only have a small return, we're the only ones who ever really even know about them!(aka the fans)

You are still comparing a multi-million dollar investment to something with an investment a mere fraction of that. Remember that 300 was released to the cinema, has been available on pay-per-view and probably been shown multiple times on the likes of Sky movies. It exists within an already popular genre of the American blockbuster movie. It is a western movie and as such is easily accesible to the western mindset. Anime, by its very nature, is fighting on a very difficult front. It is from a little known and/or understood medium. It is foreign to the western mindset. There really is no argument to say that higher profile advertising will bring in massively greater returns since, in all probability it would not and would simply be a vast waste of money. I don't think that advertising to a different set of people will have a signifcant effect. I have never been tempted to step outside the comfort zone of "what I know" by an advert on TV or in a magazine.

To be fair Tales of the Earthsea got a run by Tesco's recently. But as said in the article you have to weigh up the costs of advertising to the benefits. Advertising outside of this niche market is a really, really big gamble.

I know, I bought mine from Tesco, but it was in a slightly obscure position on the stands, so I doubt many will have noticed it there... and it was only because I was looking for a copy of the 'Night Watch & Day Watch' double DVD that I noticed it. ASDA were selling 'Steam Boy' at one point too, but it was just the English language version so I ignored it!

I am sure that Optimum had to pay a fair amount to get it displayed in the likes of Tesco. I remember Tony at MVM mentioning that they charge a premium for shelf-space in supermarkets. If you are not the likes of Disney or Warner Bros. it tends to be quite difficult to negotiate with them.

 

[Zentron]

Even that costs a lot of money and the returns would still not cover it, I am sure. To the majority of people it would just not make any sense and would be fairly unintelligible. You may try and drum up sales of the odd series but most people would not even consider it beyond the cartoonish look. They would immediately kiddify and disregard it without taking a second look. The best advertisement is to get it on primetime network TV but that is an extremely difficult proposition. Anime Central and the like are great for those who enjoy or have a passing interest in anime but the majority of people would never even notice, never mind consider watching it.

Many thousands of pounds for prime-time, though how many recent Anime releases would be allowed to be advertised in that slot... not a lot, so I wouldn't consider it much viable anywayz. I'm not saying every title should be advertised, but a more visible presence can go a long way.

You are still comparing a multi-million dollar investment to something with an investment a mere fraction of that. Remember that 300 was released to the cinema, has been available on pay-per-view and probably been shown multiple times on the likes of Sky movies. It exists within an already popular genre of the American blockbuster movie. It is a western movie and as such is easily accesible to the western mindset. Anime, by its very nature, is fighting on a very difficult front. It is from a little known and/or understood medium. It is foreign to the western mindset. There really is no argument to say that higher profile advertising will bring in massively greater returns since, in all probability it would not and would simply be a vast waste of money. I don't think that advertising to a different set of people will have a signifcant effect.

Then Anime is doomed.

I have never been tempted to step outside the comfort zone of "what I know" by an advert on TV or in a magazine.

So how did you get into Anime?

I am sure that Optimum had to pay a fair amount to get it displayed in the likes of Tesco. I remember Tony at MVM mentioning that they charge a premium for shelf-space in supermarkets. If you are not the likes of Disney or Warner Bros. it tends to be quite difficult to negotiate with them.

I know, I asked!

 

[Gawyn]

I have never been tempted to step outside the comfort zone of "what I know" by an advert on TV or in a magazine.

So how did you get into Anime?

I have always gravitated that way but I was properly introduced to anime (as an actual medium) via a friend, who originally got into anime via comics and his local comic stockist. This was way back in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[Just Passing Through]

I just imported Cowboy Bebop Remix Collection from the US for £16 including postage and package. That was the pre-release price BTW.

So how much have Beez discounted their ages old half season Region 2 Stereo sets for?

Funny you should mention that as that was discussed recently and hopefully should go through in the near future, reduction of the box set price I mean .

In the meantime taking away from the individual example you give there, we're making moves to change this with future box set releases - for example coming up in the next two months, for £24.99, you can have your pick of:

- Crest of the Stars
- Gunbuster 2
- Stratos 4

And for £49.99:

- Fantastic Children
- s-CRY-ed

Whereas for the Gundam Seed boxes, we are asking for a bit more but you get 5 DVDs as well as extras never released anywhere else. So we are taking heed of the fan's views and moving with them on our future releases. I will also personally look into what kind of discounts can be offered on previous titles to improve their appeal to fans, though it's not ideal, I hope you can agree it's better than not offering to do anything!

With more boxsets planned for 2008 at a range of prices later on in the year too ! So hang in there everyone - we are all listening to you!

These are all positive moves, and to be welcomed. I think time between retail release and discounting is a significant issue. Cowboy Bebop has been out, what 4 years?

To be fair, price isn't as much an issue to me as availablity however.

I've only imported 5 anime titles, and the majority of my collection is UK R2.

But Cowboy Bebop with 5.1 surround, commentaries, interviews and other extras was too much of a temptation for me to wait any longer.

Noein R1 boxset was also ridiuclously cheap to import. But what I wanted were translated subtitles, unavailable in the UK.

I got the Wings Of Honneamise DVD, and the Cyber City Oedo 808 disc from Australia, and the only 'mistake' I ever made was importing the Region 4 Kiki's Delivery Service 3 months before Optimum got the licence in the UK, again for the translated subtitles.

Price becomes significant when cost of living and exchange rates differ in different Regions. But when it comes to anime, the extras situation is in the same place the general DVD market was 8 years ago. When the DVD industry was starting up, Region 1 got 2-disc special editions and copious extras, while R2 got barebones discs. Finally eliminating that inequality is a long overdue move.

 

[beez_andrew]

These are all positive moves, and to be welcomed. I think time between retail release and discounting is a significant issue. Cowboy Bebop has been out, what 4 years?

To be fair, price isn't as much an issue to me as availablity however.

I've only imported 5 anime titles, and the majority of my collection is UK R2.

But Cowboy Bebop with 5.1 surround, commentaries, interviews and other extras was too much of a temptation for me to wait any longer.

Completely understandable, time to arrange those things takes a while though - especially when Bebop to this day has a steady trickle of sales still. Sadly not enough to merit paying the amount for the Remix license (last I saw the price anyway) though when you weigh it up against the cost of new series though. Which is sad but we are discounting now too and making all the moves in the right direction.

Noein R1 boxset was also ridiuclously cheap to import. But what I wanted were translated subtitles, unavailable in the UK.

I got the Wings Of Honneamise DVD, and the Cyber City Oedo 808 disc from Australia, and the only 'mistake' I ever made was importing the Region 4 Kiki's Delivery Service 3 months before Optimum got the licence in the UK, again for the translated subtitles.

Price becomes significant when cost of living and exchange rates differ in different Regions. But when it comes to anime, the extras situation is in the same place the general DVD market was 8 years ago. When the DVD industry was starting up, Region 1 got 2-disc special editions and copious extras, while R2 got barebones discs. Finally eliminating that inequality is a long overdue move.

As mentioned in the article we are at present approaching every route with regards to encouraging DVD sales to see which method is most successful. We are incluing never seen before extras such as an artbook and a whole board game we've invented for this purpose (with room for an expansion come Gundam Seed Destiny time!!).

In some other titles I can't discuss at present (some more obvious than otehrs) we are looking at possibly even not making a profit on certain titles just so we can bring you the very best release we can.

So if extras are your thing you have a lot to look forward to at least and if that's what will encourage you to buy our titles versus the US ones then hopefully that will help! If not - what would you like to see that would* ?

* Requests for giant effigies of yourself, friends or small rodents...in fact anything ridiculous excluded .

 

[--Sigil--Otaku--]

In some other titles I can't discuss at present (some more obvious than otehrs) we are looking at possibly even not making a profit on certain titles just so we can bring you the very best release we can.

So if extras are your thing you have a lot to look forward to at least and if that's what will encourage you to buy our titles versus the US ones then hopefully that will help! If not - what would you like to see that would

Wow 0_0 It's amazing to hear a company talk about making a loss just to give people products. That's why I love Beez though, they always seem to try more than the other companies. If you tell anime fans these titles they may buy them just so they can be slightly more profitable.

Yeah extras are definitely the way to go, I bought Eureka seven American only because it had the art boxes, shirts, manga and stuff. I'm even gonna get that gundam seed (saw it on anime central and didn't care for it much) just because of the cool extras your putting in. It's best to balance between extras and price though as when you start getting 2 X £70 boxsets that £140 for just one series which then would probably detract sales from others. Those digipacks look ace though, I'm gonna pick up Gunbuster since it's cheap. The best thing to do is focus on one thing, either extras or price because if you go half and half it can have only mildly appealing features where something with cool extras or really cheap could hook you.

I'd just be happy with thinpacks though, why America gets them and we don't seems odd to me. Also £50 is a fine price for a full series, I was always reluctant at £60 but I think £50 is very fair.

 

[kurosaki86]

I just imported Cowboy Bebop Remix Collection from the US for £16 including postage and package. That was the pre-release price BTW.

So how much have Beez discounted their ages old half season Region 2 Stereo sets for?

Funny you should mention that as that was discussed recently and hopefully should go through in the near future, reduction of the box set price I mean .

No offence; but it's about time, considering you can buy the whole season of the likes of GITS for the rrp of half a season of cowboy bebop. I'm still waiting to pick up CB, and I was gonna take the plunge today until I read this comment; now I'm torn between spending now or waiting and seeing how much the sets will be lowered.

Any idea of when this may happen; 2 months, 6 months....down the line?

 

[Mohawk52]

So if extras are your thing you have a lot to look forward to at least and if that's what will encourage you to buy our titles versus the US ones then hopefully that will help! If not - what would you like to see that would* ?

More episodes on fewer discs is a good start. More decent titles to begin with. ( I know that will be hard to do considering all the Lolicom moe fanservice dross that is being released in Japan lately.) Duel languages on all western released DVD's. Basically what ADV, FUNimation, and even Geneon did before they threw in the towel. Selling titles sub only is just pandering to the elitists who probably already have it on their hard drives anyway and aren't about to buy it at high prices with few episodes per disc. Good luck selling GunBusters here mate.

 

[Time and Space]

yeesh. The problems are rife in the UK anime scene.
Here's a crazy suggestion. To appeal more to the UK anime fans and prevent imports, why not produce British dubs for anime? Sure it'll be expensive (and hence unlikely), but a good dub, with a British accent, is something I'd be more inclined to purchase than an American dub... Millenium Actress was done recently, how likely will there be more British dubs, anyone?
I have little care for extras, particularly if they involve US voice actors in some way (I would be tempted by a nice artbox though, and actually, a t-shirt is tempting too), but usually I'm fine with a neat presentation, good quality sound and subtitles and a low price; and I'd look no further than region 2 (in fact, I don't anyway, and I'm an impoverished student). Combine this with faster releases, and I'm sure other 'importers' will happily stick to region 2.
(of course, getting 'lower prices' is the hard part :cry: )

 

[--Sigil--Otaku--]

Englsh dubs is a bad idea, way increases the price, delays the release and it would be hard to find good english voice actors that are suitable for young japanese kids and stuff. I'd rather they just work on the top 5 issues, price, episodes per disc, extras (like shirts and artboxes), disc extras and release dates (difference between America and Britain and the time between each volume).

There's alot of things that can make or break it but the best thing is to just hit a few points hard for example, if it was cheap and had quite a few episodes that would really hit the value side and appeal to anime fans.

 

[Zentron]

yeesh. The problems are rife in the UK anime scene.
Here's a crazy suggestion. To appeal more to the UK anime fans and prevent imports, why not produce British dubs for anime? Sure it'll be expensive (and hence unlikely), but a good dub, with a British accent, is something I'd be more inclined to purchase than an American dub... Millennium Actress was done recently, how likely will there be more British dubs, anyone?

Already happened! Crusader Video(Catgirl Nuku Nuku), East2West(Kekkou Kamen, heavily cut, so don't bother... bluddy BBFC, VRA, OPA), Manga Entertainment did UK voiced Anime too! Though we are in need of some new home-ground produced Anime dubs, I might go for them(I never listen to the US English dubs... unless there's no choice, so it's a big 'might')!

 

[--Sigil--Otaku--]

English dubs is a waste of time, we don't need awkwardly foreign voices attatched to japanese characters, how Americans are any worse than us is beyond me (apart from the odd british character) but it's really not worth the costs, the time or the effort. Do we even have enough good voice actors suited to the kind of role who would take anime seriously enough to put in a decent performance?

Though we are in need of some new home-ground produced Anime dubs, I might go for them(I never listen to the US English dubs... unless there's no choice, so it's a big 'might')!

Surely you don't watch anime and say 'this is way too Americanised yet a more Britsh version would slice my bread the right way'? Japanese is the best language for anime but if you want a dub I don't see much difference in an english or an American dub except for the anime companies who would have to give us slower releases and pay large amounts for a adub we could have just settled for being American.

 

[Zentron]

Surely you don't watch anime and say 'this is way too Americanised yet a more Britsh version would slice my bread the right way'? Japanese is the best language for anime but if you want a dub I don't see much difference in an english or an American dub except for the anime companies who would have to give us slower releases and pay large amounts for a adub we could have just settled for being American.

Course not. I very rarely listen to any of the English dubs unless there is no other option(like the Yu-Gi-Oh DVDs, or Slayers VHSs, etc), though if I am feeling a bit lazy(or some reason which escapes me at the moment) to read the subtitles and do watch the English dub, if it's a good dub, alls fair, I'll still mainly go for the sub, no three ways about it! Just too many Texan and Southern accents at the mo, time for some Brummie for a change(or something)!

 

[Time and Space]

English dubs is a waste of time, we don't need awkwardly foreign voices attatched to japanese characters, how Americans are any worse than us is beyond me (apart from the odd british character) but it's really not worth the costs, the time or the effort. Do we even have enough good voice actors suited to the kind of role who would take anime seriously enough to put in a decent performance?

Surely you don't watch anime and say 'this is way too Americanised yet a more Britsh version would slice my bread the right way'? Japanese is the best language for anime but if you want a dub I don't see much difference in an english or an American dub except for the anime companies who would have to give us slower releases and pay large amounts for a adub we could have just settled for being American.

I watch subs more frequently than dubs too. I haven't identified why, but I wonder, what is the reason? Surely it isn't that I prefer reading words to listening to them, because I don't watch my films subbed. So why? Because there are "awkwardly foreign voices attached to Japanese characters"? This seems silly, I could perhaps understand this reason in live-action Japanese films, where a foreign voice feels unconvincing, but when anime characters are generally race free, and it isn't obvious that the liips were animated for Japanese words, then this reason seems preposterous. maybe the reason is the substandard American dubs? I've heard some good dubs, but I don't think we should dismiss the idea of British dubs. There isn't a problem with British actors, and if I'm honest, I do prefer listening to the voice of a Briton than an American. And I'd certainly buy a British dub over an American dub. (please do not accuse me of 'racism', that would be tiring)
However, my idea doesn't seem feasible because of the added price, but if we did have a choice of British and American dub, I wonder how many Britons would choose the british over american, if alot of us would then it might help to solve the problem of importing. If however the majority of Britons don't care about British dubs and would either still watch American dubs and/or only subs. Then it might not be a worthwhile venture.
Maybe someone should put up a poll to see if british dubs would be popular.

 

[Mohawk52]

The sub v dub debate has raged for years. For me it has to be dubs as my eyes have grown old and do not focus as fast as when I was young, so therfore subs just give me a head and eye ache. My feelings on the subject is neither here, nor there really, rather to each their own preferences. However having said that people who come out with blanket statements that all dubs are bad are so last century. Even some Japanese directors and producers don't understand why someone would want to listen to a language they can't understand unless it's subtitled for them. but at any rate this debate is long redundant with the advent of duel language tracks on DVD's so to come out shouting like "all dubs suck and shouldn't exist" is just being elitist. The only problem I have with dubs is when the Americans try to fake a British accent. It never works. The only title I would rather it never had a dub would be Victorian Romance Emma. To dub that with american VAs would just be scandalous, However if Rightstuf decided to do the right thing,(no pun intended) and use British VAs, I'm a happy fellow.

 

[shira]

Dubs for me, unless the voice acting is particualrly bad or no other option (Bleach - no other option. And I dont like the Death Note dub at all, What happened to Yagami Lights voice!!)

 

[awadama]

I'd hate British dubs...I have to hear all these crappy accents all day - I'd much rather hear an American range of voices.